Editor’s Note: This is not a place for ad hominem attacks, but rational commentary and concern. Several experienced beeks have shared their concerns about the Flow Hive setup, even after watching all promotional material.
To be clear: experienced beekeepers are on both sides of the fence. We share their opinions below, but that share does not necessarily indicate endorsement.There certainly are pros and cons, and so we encourage you to do as much research as possible before making the purchase.
We’ve also linked to articles on other sites with more opinions and to an unauthorized Flow Hive Facebook group where you can interact with others. We have also reached out to Flow Hive representatives to give them the chance to respond to these concerns.
On February 15, I had two friends post a link to my wall of Facebook. The same link. In the following seven days I’ve had it shared onto my wall 7 more times. Not to mention the countless times I’ve been tagged in comments. It stirred my curiosity. Perhaps you’ve seen it too. The Flow Hive. It seems too good to be true. Honey on tap. You can see the video of how it works here.
Inventors of Flow Hive
It’s an innovative beehive invention that claims to revolutionize the way honey is collected. An Australian father and son team have created a new honey super that allows you to extract honey without disturbing the hive.
The Flow Hive frames can be designed to fit conventional beehives so it would seem you can just use the flow frames in your existing hive. The Flow Hives have been field tested for the past 3 years and the reviews sound promising.
Commercial Flow Hive
With the Flow Hive there is no need to dismantle the hives and remove the frames for extraction. No smokers, no centrifugal extractors, no back-breaking work of pulling honey supers. Instead you just turn a lever which opens the channel within the honeycomb and the honey drains to a pipe at the back of the hive directly into your container of choice. Meanwhile, back in the hive, the bees are virtually undisturbed as the honey drains from under their feet. When you’re finished draining you just turn the lever back and the cells are reset and ready to be refilled. The bees then uncap the combs and start again without being disturbed.
Flow Hive Honey Channel
This eliminates much of the labor involved in harvesting honey. You don’t even really need to be present. As a matter of fact, they say there is potential for remotely activated or automatic honey extraction.
The inventors hope to raise substantial capital to begin manufacturing the Flow Hive.
The Flow Lite
Stuart and Cedar Anderson, the father/son inventors, hope to raise significant capital to begin manufacturing the Flow Hive but acknowledge that “You never know what will happen when you put a new idea up on a crowd funding site.” There has been much anticipation and the unveiling will happen any minute. As I’m writing this I’m switching back and forth to their Facebook page to see when the crowd funding goes live. It just went live and here is the link. In the first few minutes they’ve surpassed their goal of $70,000! This is definitely something to keep an eye on, perhaps even out in our own fields.
Criticisms of the Flow Hive
The following are summaries of opinions shared with us on Facebook. They are not necessarily endorsed by Keeping Backyard Bees, Mother Earth News, or Grit Magazine.
- Robbing may be a concern.
- Exorbitant cost.
- May not be appropriate for colder climates (other than Australia, where it is produced).
- Possible legality issues.
- May encourage predators, and give them even easier access to honey.
- May be more efficient at honey harvesting, but may be more disruptive to the “superorganism” that is the hive.
- Bees may not have enough space to properly move and clean the hive.
- As such, the Flow Hive system with its enhanced production has been likened to battery-caged hens.
- In-hive pests (such as varroa or hive beetles) may be different in different climates (ie: United States vs. Australia, where the Flow Hive was invented and produced).
- Disease: Plastic may absorb chemicals (such as miticides) used in consequence.
- The tubes (if improperly sealed) are a pipeline for ants, wasps, or raiders.
- Images don’t really show the possible interaction between bees themselves and the deposit jars.
- May rob the hive of too much honey when bees need it most.
- Inexperienced beekeepers may think this is a simple solution and/or believe that it will eliminate the maintenance that accompanies beekeeping.
- A worry about moisture content in the honey produced (ie: the need to still inspect hives, which defeats much of the purpose of the flow system).
- Bees prefer naturally-built comb, not plastic. May stress them out and/or disturb their natural seasonal cycles.
The following are longer quotations by various beeks of various opinions.
Original photo posted by Bee Love Apiaries.
Brisbane Backyard Bees –“I like to view a hive of bees as a complex organism which includes the comb, an essential functioning part, constructed from flakes of wax produced from the bees’ abdomens [called the “superorganism”]. And our job as humans: to support this organism to perform as naturally as possible whilst sharing the harvest that the bees so graciously give up.
“The Flow Hive is a machine with moving parts and plastic comb. It may well fit our needs as consumers needing to have everything on tap – when we want it – now. And it certainly moves us one step further away from getting our hands dirty with the creatures that contribute to our food system. But what would the bees make of it? Does it support the natural cycles of this “superorganism”?
“Flow Hive honey extraction is less disturbing for the bees, but it needs to be emphasised that honey extraction is only one reason for opening a hive – there are maintenance tasks and biosecurity considerations.”
Blaine Nay – “Now, along comes a flashy new invention that presents itself as an effortless method of harvesting honey: The “Flow” hive. While the website does briefly mention that reponsible beekeepers should still conduct regular inspections, the website seems to imply that all one need to do to bee a beekeeper is to turn a spigot. Our honey bees need and deserve better care than simply opening a spigot. They need regular inspections and, when appropriate, treatments.”
M: “I think the flow hive system strikes a good balance. The plastic is only in the top (‘overflow’) super which still allows the bees to build comb in the bottom supers. Reducing the need to open the hive at the expense of having plastic in the top super is a good balance and less bees get killed which is surely a factor in the ethics of beekeeping?”
Kostas: “The process of buidling man-made hives to get honey is of the same perspective one could say. Having designed something that could improve the efficiency of harvesting without disturbing the bees, does not make it more “commodifying” than normal hives I think.
According to their tests with beekeepers (3 years) they have not observed any problems. In their FAQ they state:
Do the bees willingly fill the Flow comb compared to the traditional wax comb? In many years of testing we have found the bees readily wax up and fill the Flow frames. We have done quite a few experiments putting Flow frames in the middle of a standard supers with wax foundation frames either side. The bees have shown no preference either way and readily start building on, and filling the Flow frames at the same time as the traditional ones.”
Jonathan: “Natural comb is the primary defense system of the bee against pathogens. Somehow the cleverness of the flow hive has blindsided folks to what is actually good for the bee.
“It is bizzare that people can think that plastic is better for the bees. The energy required to build comb is unknown, but it is a primary function of a young bee to make comb and a long establish genetic ‘muscle’ that must be exercised.”
Kyle: “I am a certified bee keeper and can say IF it works like indicated it will be a positive for beekeeping since most over harvesting and colony disruption by robbing causes all sorts of issues even if done properly. The best beekeepers I know have all kinds of issues especially with wax moths and varroa. In the best circumstances you can lose hives even if everything is done right. If you really want to help bees stop using your Neonicotinoid insecticide and GMO plants modified to naturally excrete this substance.”
Outside Links:
- Going Against the Flow: Is the Flow Hive a Good Idea? (Milkwood)
- An Ingenious Invention that Turns Beehives into Flowing Honey Taps (Wired)
- The Culmination of Callousness? (Natural Beekeeping Trust)
- Should You Go With the Flow? (Honey Bee Suite)
- Honey on Tap Video Review (The Bee Vlog)
- Flow Hive Frenzy (Simple Bees)
- Thoughts on the Flow Hive (bee’s wing)
- New Invention – Flow (Reddit discussion)
- Flow Hive Facebook Group (unauthorized group)
- Flow Hive FAQ
101 Comments
A really Stupid question….. not being a bee keeper and understanding the procedure. Is this method fare to the bees? It looks like the poor guys are working their butts off. Thank you for your time, Patrick
The bees don’t care because they literally work themselves to death anyways. The life of a worker honey bee is a matter of weeks.
I think this is like what Monsanto has done to the grain. they have lost the natural quality in what nature intended. you may get the bees to the point they wont reproduce because of disrupting their natural life cycle.
This will have no effect on the honeybee life cycle. This is a storage area not brood area, the video and photos show a standard queen excluder to keep the queen out. This contraption needs to be put on only after there is sufficient honey in the brood box and supers for the bees to overwinter on, anything else is then excess.
I think it’s a novel idea and it certainly has merit especially for someone who doesn’t want to be involved in the process of managing their hives. I really don’t see how it is going to eliminate working your hives if you are a conventional beekeeper though. Further, if your business is honey production, your return on investment is going to be sketchy and it’s unlikely the equipment would last long enough to recapture your investment. It’s obvious it will reduce/eliminate the harvesting process to some degree, but it will still be necessary to inspect your hives, test and treat them for pests and diseases, etc. I thought it was a bit odd they didn’t address robbing issues at the drain site. In regard to the plastic comb, I have had less than stellar results using plastic foundation and as a result have returned to using wax foundation exclusively so I would have some concerns about that if I were to buy this system. I’m going to dub this the Sodastream of honey production. I’m guessing the greatest appeal will be to homesteading types.
“…certainly has merit especially for someone who doesn’t want to be involved in the process of managing their hives.” This contraption will NOT ALLEVIATE managing the hive. This is a gimmick, and you will NEVER see a return on your “investment”. For $600 plus S&H you get ONE super with frames, P.T. Barnum was right!
You know as a regular beekeeper for the past 3 years and having up to 14 hives at one time, for the $600 price point for one box, I can not only buy 3 full hives with two supers each but alsothe 3 pounds of bees and queen that go in each. But i think the bigger issue here that is not even being considered or addressed is the law of the state that requires youto harvest your honey away from your bees.
Hi Joe,
They do have a unit that fits a 10 frame for $340.00. By the way, I’m not saying that’s a bargain. I had to listen to their video a couple times for clarification. What they say is that this system costs less than “a hive and extracting equipment”. Well of course it costs less than extracting equipment, but that gives them an out in defending the cost of the unit. I see this as a novelty for those folks who want to pretend they’re producing honey, but anyone who has actually produced honey knows this is impractical and not financially feasible. The allure for me as a beekeeper is the interaction with the bees…the smell, the sound, the joy at seeing a filled frame and finding the queen. Separating yourself from all the things that are intriguing about beekeeping takes the “romance” out of it, and anyone who keeps bees knows that it’s a love affair.
There is a “law” that says you have to harvest your honey away from your hive? Seriously? What state is that? In the first place, It would be a bad idea to do it close to the hive due to hungry little ladies everywhere, but in the second place, if there is that type of intensive regulation in your state, I recommend a move.
In the UK you’d be lucky to get ONE complete National or Commercial hive for less than $600. That’s a brood box, 2 supers, all the frames with foundation, crown board, cover and a open mesh floor. A 6 frame nuc or a package is extra.
Does the plastic contain BPA? If so, this would be a health risk for honey consumers and the bees.
Greg,
That’s a HUGE important point I was trying to make that not many seemed to notice here .
If the plastic is vinyl it is a petroleum product that requires a manufacturing process that is unfriendly to the earth. If it is PVC, then it is known as the poison plastic.
According to the FAQ at their site: “the Flow™ frames are made from high quality, food-grade, BPA-free plastic.
They are designed to be used for a lifetime.”
BTW I know some of the people who have been trialling these now for some years; though I only actually heard about this week as it went live. It’s a group which is very strongly motivated by ecological responsibility and sustainable living. I have no direct knowledge of the product or of bee keeping, however.
The FAQ states:
“…the Flow™ frames are made from high quality, food-grade, BPA-free plastic.
They are designed to be used for a lifetime.”
I would advise anyone buying a flow hive to keep them away from tea tree, the leptospermum species very common in south eastern Australia. It produces a thixotropic honey that would block up the plastic cells and flow channels.
It says on their site that the combs are made with food grade plastic. Therefore, food grade would not contain any BPA.
“Food grade… No BPA” not true. Foid grade plastic may or may not contain BPA, or it could contain BPB, which is worse. Its also a petroleum by product formulated with various toxic solvents. Plastic leaches all kinds of toxins. Petroleum products are xeno-estrogens. Think about it.
I am rather new to beekeeping. Firstly it seems to be a nice thing reducing work with harvesting but is the work with the bees not the point of haveing them? And secondly my concerns about the Materials and production cindition would prevent me of buying it. I don’t want to Sound paranoide but even foodgrade plastik contains BPA or other potentialy harmfull things that can leach out over time! I’d rather make my own hives ‘cos then I know exactly what was used to make them!
Richard from Germany.
Hi there, l am most impressed with your product. We live in Hungary as my husband is Hungarian and l travel between Sitke and Melbourne. l am sure there will be lots of overseas interest and am wondering if you would be looking for overseas representatives to profile your Flow Hives.
l am definately interested in further information and wish you every success.
sincerely, Kristin.
So how are you supposed to know when the honey’s ripe if you’re not pulling the frames to check when capped?
So where can we purchase one from please
You can purchase one at honeyflow.com. I was one of the founding purchasers and it was my first hive that I have ever done. I have always had an interest because my great grandfather was beekeeper and I wanted to keep the tradition in the family. I purchased the HoneyFlow last year and started my hive in May 2016 with a nuc. Later in the summer, I added an additional brood box since it seemed to be the best practice here in Houston and I am glad I did. The hive continued to grow and develop but did not mature enough to give me any honey until after the winter and in the middle of February this year, I installed Honeyflow super. Since February, I have harvested 4 times with about 2.5 gallons each time for a total of 10 gallons of honey and I am about to harvest again as soon as they recap the Honeyflow combs again.
I doubt I would have made the step forward to being a beekeeper without the Honeyflow since I would have had to get the harvesting equipment. All I wanted was one hive but now I have split my hive twice and now have 3 hives (one given to a friend).
Comments regarding some of the concerns:
Robbing: Not sure why the fear of robbing since you harvest for a couple of hours and then close the hive back up again.
Cost: The cost is high so that is the reason for two brood boxes to allow more bees to fill the Honeyflow faster and make better use of the Honeyflow technology.
New Users: New users should know that they still need to be an active beekeeper and be checking the brood boxes for health of the hive.
Bees and the Honeyflow acceptance: My bees don’t seem to care about the Honeyflow comb. They just never came up into the Honeyflow until the two brood boxes were full and then they were all over it and filling it like crazy. You are able to look in the end of the Honeyflow to see if the chambers are full but you may have to open the box to see if they are capped over. I can generally tell from looking in the end.
If you want to see me harvesting my honey, I have posted most of my harvest on Youtube.com
My first harvest:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vvd71lBPQvE&t=376s
My most recent harvest after learning from the previous time:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwSzA7EHQu0&t=5s
I am not sure that I would use the Honeyflow as a commercial beekeeper but as a personal hobby, I think it is GREAT. I think that they are a great way for new backyard beekeepers to get going.
Bob
After reading this article and all the comments I would say people just don’t think. This system is not meant to replace tending the hives or caring for the bees. it is meant to allow you to rob some honey conveniently without disturbing the bees but not meant to eliminate the need to truly harvest honey the conventional way as well as inspecting and maintenance of the hive. It is like having a garden that you tend but having a couple spices growing in your kitchen counter for convenience. Just because the counter has produce does not mean you don’t have to maintain your garden. I purchased some of the components to convert two of my hives. The only legitimate question I had and did send it to them was the issue of the plastic leaching BPA or other manufacturing release chemicals immediately or over time. I think that this will help to introduce many into the bee keeping world. Even though you will have those who fail and have bad experiences for lack of responsibly tending the hives, you will have many who will be introduced into the bee world and become responsible keepers and thus help the bee population. So many want to try bee keeping but are intimidated at first. I think this will allow a pleasant slow introduction and as they learn good keeping methods and become more comfortable with the bees and the pocess they will become part of a solution to a growing bee problem we face in the world today. The creators of this product strongly suggest that people become part of their local bee keeping community and help that community grow as they grow. They tested various prototypes for 7 years and finally tested the final design with keepers for three before launching. they are not after the quick get rich novelty greed ideas. they really are bee people wanting to better the relationship between bees and people making people more aware of the true importance of bees and their relationship to our lives.
I’m interesting in starting keeping Bees, were can I purchase the Flow Hive, if they have a starter kit, and what’s the cost!!!
Comments by Kyle are rediculous. A certified beekeeper who knows nothing. Purporting to understand beekeeping. There is no varroa in Australia. What’s he talking about? Robbing hives in summer has zero impact on the health of the hive. Why does he mention wax moth in this context? Irrelevant.
If the Flow Hive is so great, why no marketing to beekeepers? Because their only hope is to market to those thinking of getting into bees but know nothing about it. Imagine replacing 100% beeswax combs with elaborate plastic mechanisms! Abomination! Being dependent on this technology would be a disaster. Having no extractor and wanting to increase hive numbers would cost a fortune. You can buy a good extractor for the cost of one of these gimmicks.
[…] for your bees in a responsible way, which means you still have to open the hive. Have a read of this page which offers both pros and cons for the flow […]
Whats it made of PLASTIC ?? MAJOR FAIL !!
Imagine what beekeeping would be like using this system! We never have the experience of lifting the combs out of the hive: feeling and seeing the harvest. Also eating honey comb would become a memory.
I suppose so, if this was designed to replace every hive in your apiary. I would hope that a beekeeper would use these only as a novelty. Unless it was warm outside, it would be slow go. I don’t know how it is for you, but honey does not just “pour” out of the comb completely like described here…unless it is a really hot day. LOL. I think it is a neat contraption, but the price point is way too steep for a country boy like me. I will wait till they sell it to the Reds and the price drops to around 20 bucks! XD
Me too! I predict in two years we’ll be getting calls aging us to come take the abandoned ones away!
But there’s too much tea tree around here for me to ever try one.
Andrew Broomfield calm down champion and try having a read about what your commenting on before making foolish comments. It clearly states that you still need to check your super regularly and the brood box is the same as any other hive. Here’s a little quote from there site to help you understand a little better
“Our invention changes the honey harvesting component of beekeeping. All the rest of the normal beekeeping care for the hive still applies; beetles, mites, swarm control, etc. The Flow™ Hive’s end window does assist with allowing you to look into the hive and gauge the strength and health of the colony.”
I hope this helps before you start making any more wild accusations.
take care
Of course, panels of removable comb starter and bellowing smoke is “natural” according to the critics who claim that this invention is unnatural !?!? I have but one response to those who cannot imagine moving from the age-old methods. “If man were intended to fly, God would have given him wings.”
What do you mean by removable comb starter? If you mean foundation, it is perfectly natural, it’s made of beeswax and the bees recognize it as comb. As far as smoke, that also is natural. Fires happen all the time in nature and the smoke elicits a specific reaction by the bees. Man just uses that reaction to his advantage and it does no harm to the bees.
[…] Die schonende Methode zur Honigernte hat weitere Vorteile. Das Verfahren ist so konzipiert, dass der Honig nicht zwangsläufig weiterverarbeitet werden muss. Die Wände des Stocks sind darüber hinaus zum Teil durchsichtig, so dass eine direkte Beobachtung des Volkes möglich ist (unter diesem Link gibt es weitere technische Angaben zu der Entwicklung und hier eine ausführliche Kritik). […]
All concerns listed also relate to the conventional way of beekeeping. This looks to me like a perfect idea for the hobby beekeeper to avoid the high cost of extraction equipment. BUT its not for me, I currently try to keep 5 to 10 hives and would miss the close interaction with the bees. Once you devise a routine , other than the weight , the process is very relaxing and inspections are even addictive. Natural comb honey would also be a problem, but that’s not for everyone.
A small second-hand extractor can be purchased at a very reasonable price. Perhaps for the cost of one of these Flow Hives. Beekeeping without an extractor would leave one dependant on this new technology, making it extremely expensive to increase hive numbers. Also frames in the bottom hive box need to be moved up to the top box when they get old. The Flow Hive would decrease one’s flexibility in hive management.
I agree, but I have to give them an A+ for their accomplishments.
Certainly an A+ for their technical accomplishment. However, for what purpose? There are many problems in beekeeping, and many problems for bees generally. This invention solves none of them. The Flow Hive is about getting the honey out of the hive. That is not one of our problems. I harvested 220 Kg by hand last Saturday. I was thinking about the Flow Hive while I was doing it. I failed to see how it could have saved me any time at all. In fact this new technology just throws up a list of new logistical problems. I give them an A+ with honors for their marketing strategy.
No doubt! this looks fun, but not practical. Who knows, we could be totally wrong. Technology has always been scoffed at through the years. Remember that strange guy who invented the light bulb? He was castigated by the coal oil lamp business!
Interesting piece of history about the light globe! In that case the coal lamp people had a vested interest. In our case with the Flow Hive, the people who are going to get burnt are those wanting to get into bees, knowing little about beekeeping and have been attracted by this advertising campaign. I’ve met quite a few in this category and they are excited. I fear they’re going to waste a lot of money on these things. Have you noticed that the advertising campaign stayed right away from conventional beekeeping? Not a single add in the Australian Bee Journal.
Message*The price of One unit ,delivered to Rajasthan (INDIA).Or minimum order to be delivered in India
Waiting for your reply
If the forage was oil-seed rape, you would probably have problems harvesting as it ‘gunges up’ easily. There are other forages with similar problems.
Any honey will leave behind sticky residue in the drainage runs after it has lost all the moisture content. The bees can’t get to it to clean it up, only to the insides of the cells.
I hope it works out for the inventors though.
Where do you get these hives from and how much do thay cost
The system has it’s flaws no doubt but I commend people who come up with creative solutions and would hope to see much more creative thinking in the way of beekeeping into the future.
lets see creative solutions to the problems addressed.
Here is an hour long interview with a professional bee keeper on why there are problems with the Flow Hive.
http://themaxpodcast.libsyn.com/the-max-podcast-episode-0004
How can bee keepers addressing the expense incurred when American Foul Brood is detected in the flow hive and then how would we dispose of the AFB flow frames after detection. It is common that a responsible bee keeper will dispose of all the infected frames, typically burning them and scorching the inside surfaces of their hive box. I would like an update the Flow website to discuss AFB and the correct practices bee keepers should take to prevent this devastating disease from spreading using the Flow frames.
Any experienced bee keeper would not make such a statement because the flow hive is NOT a hive, it is merely a super designed for honey capture only; it is not designed for bees to establish brood in, hence NO foulbrood!
As any bee-keeper knows, AFB spores contaminate stored food…. ‘stored food’ is honey…. honey is in the supers as well as the brood box…. the colony move all around the hive, brood box and supers…. carrying AFB spores with them.
The whole hive and colony should be burned.
Latent commented on The Flow Hive: Worth the Hype?.
in response to Rattlerjake:
Any experienced bee keeper would not make such a statement because the flow hive is NOT a hive, it is merely a super designed for honey capture only; it is not designed for bees to establish brood in, hence NO foulbrood!
As any bee-keeper knows, AFB spores contaminate stored food…. ‘stored food’ is honey…. honey is in the supers as well as the brood box…. the colony move all around the hive, brood box and supers…. carrying AFB spores with them.
The whole hive and colony should be burned.
A experienced bee-keeper would know that AFB (and other) spores get transported all around the hive by the colony. The spores don’t just stay with the brood! A infection would need total immolation.
Just a message to the inventors!
I love this idea!!! I love it so much I really wish I could buy one, but really don’t have the money to do so… But anyways onto my 10 cents. I can see how you get your honey by cracking the cells open and having all the honey flow down and out of the hive, but what happens to the cells that are not yet filled with honey, but are actually uncapped and filled with uncured honey? Honey that really isn’t honey… I would not like have honey and uncured honey mixed into my mornings breakfast or slices of toast. Leaving the hive undisturbed is nice for the bees, but you are going to have to look inside eventually and see if the uncured honey is capped and ready to be harvested. The hive only offers a side view and a frontal view, but to take a look at the caps, you would have to open up the hive and check it manually. Also, how would you clean the hive if most of the honey comb caps have fallen to the bottom? I get it if they only crack, then they can be filled and resealed by the bees, but what happens when they fall down to where the honey gets collected? I don’t really want to get any wax in my teeth. Plus,cleaning that up would be a huge pain… taking the box apart just to clean all of the fallen caps while taking the risk of getting stung. Might as well get a plain old beehive and harvest it the old fashion way. You would also have to clean the hive anyways to get rid of any waste or dead bees that may be located inside, and in a place where it can’t be seen through the front and side views. Bees are not perfect and will not keep the hive immaculate. All creatures have their flaws. Anyways… that’s all the negatives I would like to say for the moment. Again, great idea and would love to own one. I am just concerned with the methodology of such a new invention. And congratulations on reaching 10 million dollars compared to your 70 thousand dollar goal. Quite a leap, and what a difference from being in the thousands to being pretty much millionaires in less than 2 weeks. I hope everything goes well, and hopefully, this invention will prove to be a successful life changer not just for us, but for the bees as well! Good luck!!!
– Dallis Church
The amount of money that has flowed in to this invention is beginning to look terrifying. Can you imagine the pressure these guys must be under? Ten million is going to produce a lot of these hives! And what are the buyers going to do when they get them? Where are they going to get their bees? And what about all the rest of the equipment they are going to need just to get started? Not to mention the knowledge! This could end up being quite destabilizing for the industry with no net benefit. These orders are not from existing beekeepers. They are from people who know very little about the craft. A lot of these ‘hives’ are going to die out through neglect and ignorance. The two inventors are going to be under a lot of pressure for a very long time to come despite the “wonderful caring community” they have created.
Hi, I am a beekeeper. But I do not own a flow hive.
First, let me say that I do not think these plastic frames are a good idea because wax absorbes the toxins out of the honey.
Second, honey should be capped off before extraction, which I do not think would be a problem to see from the side. Why? Because bees fill the frame up from the center to the edge. So when you see the edge capped off, you will know the center has been done.
3. I would think the capping would just split, then the bees will use the capping to repair the comb. Often when I miss cappinigs with my knife, I Will just slice the cap before we extract the comb.
4. We have our bees draw their own wax after each season because. a. Toxins build up in wax.b. bees that make their own wax are stronger and their resistance to mites is at it’s peak.
We have not lost one hive to mites since we changed our method.
4 .
I think the Flow Hive is a terrible idea.
Support a real beekeeping initiative!
We’re donating Honeybees to the Navajo!
Sir i not know to bee kits plese help me i am a indian bee farmer
hie l am a Zimbabwean national with a Plastics and Rubber Certificate with a keen interest in doing a project in the production of honey especially using the Flow Hive it seem like a very efficient means of producing honey , how can l get the Flow Hive
Simply google the website of the FlowHive. When you posted your comment it was not available on the website. Now it is.
Good luck with your project, by the way x
how can I buy a flow bee hive from you and how much it cost ? Can you buy it in England?
hi. I want to purchase this flow hive, please guide me in this regard. I am from Pakistan.
Thanks.
waiting for your reply.
Thank you for posting both sides of the story. So much about the Flow system is either vendor driven or violent opposition — needless to say both extremes are covered well — and this article cuts through the middle. As I start my bee keeping adventure (yes, with a FlowHive) more real and un-inflamitory and unbiased information is always best.
I’m not a bee keeper but with all the reports on how the bee population is down and how important it is to build the population of honey bees the Flow Hive seems to be a good solution. Maybe more people will get involved with this. I know I’m interested now and I will probably try to keep bees. This is an exciting project.
Bee numbers down? I think the industry is pulling our collective leg. Bee numbers according to some reports are up. There are more hives today than there were a few years ago, in America at least. Drought play a large part in the decimation of bees, but they always come back…. one link http://www.science20.com/news_articles/near_20year_high_beepocalypse_postponed_again_until_2017-169496
We love to have and purchase the equipment for hype bee honey on our back yard, could you please provide us where we can purchase the equipment?
Thank you
The flow hive looks interesting. Probably works best in Australia where bees face far fewer pressures.
I’m mostly hung up on the last quote from Kyle
“If you really want to help bees stop using your Neonicotinoid insecticide and GMO plants modified to naturally excrete this substance.”
GMO plants that excrete insecticidal substances (as far as I know) excrete the toxins of bacillus thuringiensis, a bacteria commonly used in organic agriculture to control lepidopteran pests.
People need to start creating urban beehives asap. We dont have much time left. There are plenty of great sites out there that make it easy to learn. http://www.beehivekitreivews.com is a good source as well.
Having kept bees for 5 years now. I have worked to find use for my wax. Being a woodworker I have several recipes for this. My favorite is what I call board butter. I use the wax with different oils to treat cutting boards I make. With the flow hive, I would loose my cappings.
Remarkable issues here. I’m very happy to look your article.
Thank you so much and I am taking a look ahead to touch
you. Will you kindly drop me a e-mail?
This is strictly for a hobbyist that does not need all of the honey produced. If honey is the goal then this set up is not the answer.
There is no possible way to collect all of the honey that you can from spinning. Besides not collecting the wax the bees must cut the capping to find the cell empty before they may or may not refill the cell with new nectar to dehydrate before recapping.
I do understand some of the issues here but for me they do not appear to outweigh the benefits. My father had eight hives in South Africa. I now live in the USA and at 70 and retired I would like to have a hive or two and this appears to be my best route. With the cost of extractors and other needed equipment there does not seem to be a significant cost difference.
We purchased the system this year and absolutely LOVE IT! We hope to obtain more units if the price drops somewhat.
Thank you for keeping a good vibe in your article on the Flow Hive®! We have two flow hives and found the Spring honey flow to be amazing. 30 lbs of honey in 30 minutes out of the seven frame FH®. It took the bees six weeks to fill it before we could extract it. We did not experience any more in the hives after that spring. We will see how they work out next year. Note: We have notices this year that the wax moths are not interested in these frames. that’s a good thing!
Well, it’s been around 8 months since this article was posted. Is there any change in the feels about this beekeeping / honey extraction system?
If you want to see me harvesting my honey, I have posted most of my harvest on Youtube.com
My first harvest:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vvd71lBPQvE&t=376s
My most recent harvest after learning from the previous time:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwSzA7EHQu0&t=5s
I am just getting into keeping bees yet as an outsider looking in I feel this needs a lot more ‘field trial’ before it could be considered the ultimate solution if you will. One of the comments I did read which made a lot of sense was how much honey do you know you are extracting without affecting the bee’s ability to survive? Since you are not physically seeing inside the hive you really have no way of knowing. Just one old man’s two cents worth..
Hello please can you help??
I have noticed that my honey bees that used to frequent my flower garden have stopped , Last year I did not notice any Honey bees for the first time and very little Bumble Bees
So I’, afraid the bees are dying off and I want to help in starting bees hives to bring back the population.
I know it is a problem and a very serious problem.
So what I want is a plan or instructions on building bee hives that I can leave alone and let them grow and the only thing I want out of it is a way to get honey out without bothering the hive.
That is it
I want them to flurish and grow and I want to help the colony in any way to help against any bee killing insects or are they dying off from something other that is man made?
I want to make a small flow hive like what you show on your site but for small hives for my garden and my sisters.
I love flowers and want to help the bees and only want hives that I can get honey from without disrurbing the hive in any way.
What can you do to help me bring back bees to Minnesota and help them survive the winters here?
Are we able to buy Mexican stingless bees?
is there any possibility I could get instructions on how to build the flow hive my self. I am retired military and have very little money.
I have a Flow honey super. I’ve installed it over two Langstroth big boxes (I live in Connecticut).
The bees appear to accept the plastic frames, as there’s a lot of them working on the honeycomb – a benefit of the viewports is being able to seer their activity without disturbing them. I had a queen excluder in, but removed out to facilitate easier entry by the workers. I don’t worry about the queen laying eggs in the Flow super because the depth of the comb cells is more than a queen prefers. I’ve had out installed for about three weeks now, but no honey as of yet. I’m more pro-Flow than con, but I’m also as realist … I don’t expect this thing to instantly revolutionize beekeeping, but it sure is a good idea.
Undeniably believe that which you said. Your favorite justification seemed to
be on the web the simplest thing to be aware of. I say to you, I certainly
get annoyed while people consider worries that they plainly do not
know about. You managed to hit the nail upon the top
and defined out the whole thing without having side effect ,
people can take a signal. Will likely be back to get more.
Thanks
I have a small farm and wanted to support one hive for pollination and enough honey for 1 person. I got the 6 frame (8FrameLangstrom) Flow Frame super. FlowHive has done much with educational videos and promotion of new beekeepers not to neglect their own education (join your local chapter of beekeepers). I took a class from a local bee business, that sells equipment and accessories. I joined the local chapter of beekeepers. I understand as a licensed vet tech that benign neglect can and does impact many species (not just bees).
I like my flow frame for the ease of honey extraction, I live in the cold north (Maine) and do not keep the flow frames in the hive. I take them out when capped and then wash them down and store before winterizing the hive (that is the plan). I understand that I need to leave enough winter honey for the hive.
As a new hive this year I have only used 3 of my flow frames and leave the natural waxed frames beside these for the hive. I feel that the bee’s prefer the natural wax over the flow frames and have found that they will often rob the flow frame when drawing out comb on new frames. Still not having the labor involved to get my honey is a huge plus for this small farm.
I bought a Flow Hive and I am very pleased with it. I live in Alaska and saw that there was a comment regarding “it may not work in colder climates”.
Well, when you consider that the bees keep the hive at ~90 degress, it doesn’t matter. The honey is warm. Our first collection dumped a frame in 20 minutes, just like they show on the Australian hives. The honey starts to come out slowly, but picks up momentum and it was amazing how well it worked. Just like in their video.
Kathy
i live in san Antonio texas I want to have one small hive in my back yard. questions is it ok with rules ? is it safe for others ? is it much work ? I was looking at the flow system ?
I really don’t understand the negative comments. I have been wanting to keep bees for years and have read extensively and will now start because of the flow hive hype. The main reason I have not really started was the extraction process. So for me I know I will have to inspect my hive every 7 to 10 days and plane on leaving my bees 95% of the honey. I also plane on putting on a bee excluder under the flow hive so I can bring the flow frame inside. This way I will better be able to judge if it works. Many of you bee keepers have quite a holier than thou attitude. Remember if man was meant to fly God would have given him wings…
Regarding the flow hive: It may be that established wax frame and other suppliers of honey extraction machinery see this as directly affecting their businesses. So their criticism should be taken with a grain of salt. It certainly looks good but the cost is somewhat prohibitive. Unless cost can be brought down, these flow hives will be working alongside established practices, and probably be more for a home hobby hive than a business. Its otherwise an expensive alternative…at this point… Its after all a plastic device with a limited life span…
One unit price of flow hive??.
Where is available in india??
I’ve been using the Flow Hive system for three years now, and it has been nothing but a positive experience. I only use four Flow frames out of 18 total super frames on one hive, which leaves plenty of honey for the bees and plenty of honey for my use. If properly set up, the extraction process attracts no robbers, kills zero bees, and doesn’t disrupt the hive at all during extraction. I don’t even suit up for the process. My bees are flying and going about their business all around me while extracting. It is crucial to inspect the Flow frames to make sure all cells are capped before performing a harvest.
Having owned a Flow hive now for one year, as a beginner, it seems rather obvious to me, the simplicity and function of the Flow hive.
The points raised in this article, seem to me, a little over the top. For example, ““It is bizzare that people can think that plastic is better for the bees. The energy required to build comb is unknown, but it is a primary function of a young bee to make comb and a long establish genetic ‘muscle’ that must be exercised.”
Clearly, if the bee is not required to waste energy in manufacturing comb, wouldn’t that then, allow the bee to perform more productive work instead ?
If a Flow Hive is utilised with car, placed on top of TWO 10 frame brood boxes, surely there would be enough sustinence within those two brood boxes for the bees to survive healthily ? In my own case, my hive is progressing at a phenominal rate after a cold winter, thru which I did feed them with three liters of sugar syrup to ensure my bees were thriving and healthy come spring, and they are. The Flow hive was not placed upon the brood boxes until mid spring, even then, it took a while before the bees entered and started storing honey therein. So clearly, the brood boxes came first. Whilst it is true, owing/using a Flow hive does not reduce the responsibility of maintaining a brood hive, one must still practice the art of bee keeping, there’s no doubt though, that a Flow Hive makes collecting the honey cheaper, (no massive outlay for a small amount of honey, relative) no messy stick mess to clean up after wards, no squashed bees, no messy wax to filter and clean, no sifting of honey, no spinner to clean, and a heap more. After all, this is what attracted me to the Flow Hive in the first place.
I want to purchase this flow box from your organization and need your well support.
Hello Sandip,
We do not carry this hive. We would suggest using a search engine to find a Flow Hive to purchase.
Best,
KBB Team
I’m a novice beekeeper. I’ve always wanted to have hives of my own, but the cost of the equipment always put me off. Along comes the Flow Hive, which seems to fit the bill of not requiring centerfuges and strainers ect, ect.
I jumped in and bought my first Flow hive, only later, did I discover it was a knock off, from the original. This posed a few issues, but nothing serious.
The biggest was no frames supplied for the Brood box. These needed to be purchased individually. The second issue was the Bees, it was extremely difficult to source a supplier where I could obtain a viable colony. Ultimately, I found a commercial Bee keeper who was willing to SPLIT a hive and supply me with five frames and a Queen.
No one told me, the brood would have to be established before the Flow hive could be placed above the brood box. I put the Flow hive on top, and nothing happened for 5 months. Some folks suggested placing wax in the Flow box, which I did, other than the exploring bee or two, nothing happened for quiet some time. Along came beginnings of summer, and WHAM, the brood box was full, as was the second brood box as well, now the bees have discovered the Flow hive and are busily doing what bees do, and I’m looking forwards to my first harvest towards the end of summer.
Whilst walking my dogs one day, I came across a swarm in the local park, wasted no time coming back with a brood box I had on stand by, gathered the whole swarm and took them home. They established themselves very quickly in their new home 10 full frames. I recently bought a new Genuine Flow frame box with 9 frames to place on top of this brood box. On opening the swarm brood box, I couldn’t get the lid off. It was free all the way around, but still refused to free. Putting more pressure it eventually broke free, and I discovered the bees had built honeycomb under the lid it’self attaching it to the top of the frames in the brood box. It was a large network in a star shape with no less than 7 branches branching off, and ALL full of honey, which now after breaking free, halved the combs and allowed the honey to run free covering everything underneath and on top.
A real mess, dunno how many bees I lost as a result, getting caught within the honey.
Now the thing is, ventilation is important, so it’s necessary to have a hole in the top board under the cover, how does one prevent the bees from accessing the area under the cover ? Is it O.K. to staple fly wire over this hole, allowing air to flow, but prevent the bees from entering ???
The New Flow hive has already attracted the bees, just two days after being placed over the brood box, and the bees are busily doing what bees do waxing the frames and filling them with honey.
I for one, am very satisfied with my Flow frames.
I am new to the bee keeping scene so I have a question. With the flow hives the brood box is on the bottom and the second box shown is your super. What needs to be done for winter as far as food? Do you add another box for their stores? Do you stop robbing the super at a certain time? Im puzzled.
I purchased Two flow supers three years ago. The season in Maine is very short. So, since it’s unnatural foundation, the bees take forever to prep it. However, what little honey I did Get was easy to extract. In addition, the honey had a freshness to it that my other honey didn’t. Overall I would only use this on a wintered hive, one that has two established brood boxes.
WOW, Clearly some folks don’t like a bit of competition. I own TWO Flow Hives, one is 2 years old and the second is 1 year old. I am not a COMMERCIAL producer. I do not recommend this type of hive for COMMERCIAL production, and I do not believe the concept was aimed at COMMERCIAL producers. Commercial producers deal with very large volumes of honey, thus negation the whole Flow hive concept from the get go.
IMHO, Flow hives are unbeatable for backyard bee keeping. I believe that was the sole purpose of their invention. Back yard beekeepers have no desire to spend huge amounts of money to purchase the required equipment to harvest the honey. This is where the Flow Hive comes into it’s own.
Robbing may be a concern. (Who is going to “rob” my hive in my back yard ?
Exorbitant cost. (YES, agree, very expensive, but Chinese knock offs are available, and IMHO, work just as well)
May not be appropriate for colder climates (other than Australia, where it is produced). (You do realise, it DOES get COLD in Australia too ? we even have SNOW in summer. L.O.L.)
Possible legality issues. (Please explain what these legal issues are.)
May encourage predators, and give them even easier access to honey.(sorry, no predators in my back yard, and anyway, predators can access ordinary hives just as easily.)
May be more efficient at honey harvesting, but may be more disruptive to the “superorganism” that is the hive. ( How is the Flow hive more disruptive than opening the hive pulling frames out, cutting wax off, spinning the frame and then replacing it ?)
Bees may not have enough space to properly move and clean the hive.(There is the RECOMMENDED spacings available in a Flow hive, just as there is in a none Flow hive.)
As such, the Flow Hive system with its enhanced production has been likened to battery-caged hens.(Explain the claim, “enhanced production” as I can assure you, production is no more enhanced in my Flow hives then in any other.)
In-hive pests (such as varroa or hive beetles) may be different in different climates (ie: United States vs. Australia, where the Flow Hive was invented and produced). (The pests your reffering to, can also establish themselves in a Flow hive as in an ordinary hive)
Disease: Plastic may absorb chemicals (such as miticides) used in consequence.( Don’t use any chemicals anywhere near my hives)
The tubes (if improperly sealed) are a pipeline for ants, wasps, or raiders.(The tubes do not stay fitted to the Flow hive, they are only inserted to harvest the honey. When flow ceases, tubes are removed. area wiped clean, and plugs reinserted. Ants are just as much of an issue as they are with an ordinary hive)
Images don’t really show the possible interaction between bees themselves and the deposit jars.(What interaction of the bees with the deposit jars ?)
May rob the hive of too much honey when bees need it most.(Anyone nurturing a hive takes an interest in their livelihood and well being/health. I do not believe for a second, such people would harvest ALL the honey in a flow hive, thus ensuring the starvation of the brood)
Inexperienced beekeepers may think this is a simple solution and/or believe that it will eliminate the maintenance that accompanies beekeeping. ( Very good subject. In the two years I’ve had my Flow hives, I’ve stuck my head into the brood boxes TWICE a year to check on things. Again, my hives are not a COMMERCIAL situation, therefore the requirements of COMMERCIAL do not apply.)
A worry about moisture content in the honey produced (ie: the need to still inspect hives, which defeats much of the purpose of the flow system).(refer to above comment)
Bees prefer naturally-built comb, not plastic. May stress them out and/or disturb their natural seasonal cycles.(have not found any basis with my hives to sustain such a claim)
For what it’s worth, my responses to the claims made against Flow Hives.
I have three Flow Hives. As a back-yard beekeeper, they are perfect. Harvesting could not be easier. I still inspect right after each harvest … and in the late fall before “putting them to bed” for the winter.
This year, I got to split a hive successfully after noticing four queen cells being made in the brood chamber below. (The flow hive frames are in the super with a queen excluder in-between.)
Thus far, I’ve harvested six gallons of honey from two hives. I’ll leave them to it at mid-summer for their own stores to make it through the winter. I also supplement them in mid-January with syrup. They get treated for mites with powdered sugar in the spring and summer whenever I see mites on the bottom board or when inspecting. In the late fall they get treated with mite strips.
The take away is that there’s little difference between the Flow Hive method of bee keeping and the traditional method except for the extraction. When I balanced the extraction equipment costs against the purchase of three Flow Hives, it was a wash. So I figured that the less hassle of harvesting outweighed all the other criticisms. But for a big producer with ten or more hives, I’d say stick to the traditional methods.
But for a backyard producer who sells less than ten gallons a year at a local farmer’s market, the Flow Hive is perfect. I love mine and the bees do too!
The flowhive will give beekeepers and especially new beekeeper the impression that hey do not have to check on the bees. Either way you have to check the honey frames to see if they are capped or you may introduce honey with to much moister and the whole batch of honey will ferment and go bad if that happen or worse yet make someone sick or kill someone.
Aren’t you so pose to check the hive before harvesting honey to see if you may have diseases in the hive that could hurt humans. ?
I’m excited to see this honey collection system!
It reminds me of one I recently seen in Indonesia; where bees fill larger man made bowls with honey! I was excited to see that on a Cooking show a couple months ago. Ever since I’ve been thinking of how to reproduce that one!
Now I don’t need to engineer one as this one tops that one (I think 🙂
I am willing to try one in my hives here is Wisconsin, USA
This may even spur on more innovations!!!
I’ll think of a way to cap the spigots to keep unwanted pests away!
This is an amazing idea that you have shared through this article. Thank you for sharing this amazing information through this article.
A lot of speculation by those who don’t own one. Please don’t post if you are not expecting some backlash. It is nothing more than a honey box. It is not the main deep, which they do provide. It is not for the commercial bee keeper. The flow portion is for the honey run. I take mine off at the end of the flow. Otherwise, it is a standard hive. You do not need an extractor which offsets the cost for the setup. I have had mine since inception and have never lost a hive in the winter. Standard bee keeping applies. This is just a means of extraction to relieve stress so the bees don’t swarm.
Great invention!
Where do I get this Bee Hive. I need five, I’m in Uganda.
Thank you.